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>> about an issue that we deal with, but it's not on tonight's agenda, this is the time to do it. anybody? no? all right. seeing no public comment, let me just announce that we have personnel issues that i won't get into in detail, but we're going to skip around on the posted order of our agenda and skip right down to the regular calendar item d.
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melchor josette grey area foundation for the arts, [ph*-eup/]a street between mary and 5th streets. >> the artistic endeavor can be permit applications for outdoor sound are handled by commission staff where activities would go past 10:00 p.m., or multiple days it's our policy to bring it to the commission. this performance would take place october 20th and 21 on minna between 5th and mary street for up to 2000 attendees. sfpd southern station has recommended approval and approved eight conditions listed in the memo in your packet.
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>> okay. is the applicant here? >> hello >> hi. >> would you introduce yourself. >> i'm the director of public programming for grey area foundation for the arts. >> stephanie and i'm also affiliated with grey area foundation for the arts. >> is that microphone on? >> i believe it is. i'm just quiet. >> okay. any questions by the commission? >> i have -- are you going to make a presentation? if not, i can go straight to questions? >> i can explain a little bit about this. >> i read your packet. >> perfect, please just go ahead with your questions.
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>> am i correct in saying that you are going to put 8 speakers and 8 subwoofers plus two extra subwoofers around this area? >> this would be inside the minna tunnel. >> inside? >> inside the minna tunnel? >> yes. >> do you know what the minna tunnel is made out of? >> what structurally? >> yes. structurally. >> concrete. >> correct. it's concrete. how do you intend on -- so in reading your statement, you talk about the best possible speakers. are these the speakers that you are going to actually use? >> yes. >> so you are using eight subwoofers with 15" speakers in it? >> yes. >> and you are talking here about having the sustained
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level of 110db, with weighted peaks at 125db and you also note that proper presentation of the audio portion of the chamber requires that these specifications are met or exceeded? >> for this particular performance we won't be reaching that level. we reached an a greement with the chronicle building and agreed that the peak db level we would reach would be maximum 90 db and perhaps even quieter. >> okay. so does that negatively affect your presentation? >> not necessarily. actually i think it will be fine with the reverbant qualities. >> this is a tunnel. how do you propose to contain the sound within the tunnel? >> so we have three layers of drapes on either side of the tunnel. these will be very thick,
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heavy, 20' tall drapes that will contain the sound and the speaker configuration points towards itself. and when we went to do the test, where we reached the 90 db limit, we actually had people in the chronicle building and around, observing just to sew how much of a nuisance the noise was and there were no complaints. >> did have you people down the block from howard street or at the end of minna alley or mary street? did you have someone away from your space? >> we did, actually. the bulk of the festival is going to be happening between, like mary street, and we set up multiple people that toured by where the bar is set up on mary, just to check in. >> did you cross mission street? >> we didn't cross mission state. >> it can travel through concrete until it reachs some end, bounces and then is very loud. >> yes.
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>> it can go for blocks, so someone on market street could hear it because it just hit their building. so you believe that the density of these drapes are going to somehow contain a signal that falls into the ground and travels? >> there is also -- i mean there is going to be carpeting in the system, but i can't speak -- i can't speak -- >> i am not worried about your mid-high speakers. i'm worried about your base. so mid-highs will cancel each other out. i understand that. but base doesn't necessarily do that. so if you are under violation of our sound ordinance, you are in the middle of your production and the police or our investigators are going to come and shut you down. >> yes. >> and you are going to take that chance by doing this way.
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it's a lot of sound. how do you intend of maintaining your db at 90? are you going to have somebody monitoring? how are you doing that? >> we have -- we're going to have two possible three three technicians on hand on the day to make sure we're within that db range. that is the plan. and the chamber actually come where's its own technical staff. one member of which intended to be here, but couldn't make it and both -- all three of the regular people behind the chamber will be on-hand on the day. >> so tell me what is making the sound? is it a soundtrack? is it live music? what is making the sound (it's a soundtrack. it's all pre-recorded material that is being recorded for this in the chamber. >> and is this pre-recorded material heavy on the base? >> some of it can be. when it's set up for large art festivals, many of the pieces
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can be heavy on the low-end, but that was consideration to think about the pieces to screen. the chamber on that day was nothing that would suffer from a lower db loit. >> there are a lot of residents literally across the street from what you are doing and there is lot of glass in the plaza. it could hit those buildings and start shaking that glass? >> it could. i can't speak definitely if it would, but it could. >> how would i feel if i asked you to get rid of the 18" speakers? >> i could go back to the team and see if it's possible and worth going ahead with it. >> would it negatively affect your presentation? >> more than likely yes, it would. but i can't speak right now as to it would be -- >> you have ten base spins in a tunnel. i'm sorry, i don't know you, but i find it -- i don't trust that you are going to be
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able to monitor a db wave on a base level at 90 and keep it contained. i find that very hard to believe. it's like, you know, when i was a kid, the guys i used to hang would go down to the station and harmonize because the acoustics amplified the sound. you are in a tunnel that will amplify whatever you produce. you produce 90 db, those walls will amplify and your curtains may or may not contain the basis. base. my feeling is that it probably wouldn't. i find that an issue. what do you think? >> commissioner joseph. a lot of the points that commissioner joseph made, those would be the exact same points i would make myself. there are a few additional things just to throw out there. one, we do have some familiarity with sound in this particular tunnel off the grid
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as does weekly events there. they periodically do do music there. we have had complaints from that particular music as far as away as a block and a half. and they were not pushing anywhere near 90 db. they were probably pushing closer to 75-80, basically acoustic music. every once in a while it's amplified dj music where we periodically get complaints . just to reiterate what commissioner joseph said, there is definitely concern that the tunnel will take that and bounce that not only into the plaza and residents, but as far as away as 6th street, which this commissioner nose has a ton of residents on. it and really, we weren't there at
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that particular test. so i'm not sure to what levels they went. sounds like they did a pretty complete test, but at the end of the day we weren't there and we don't know and we're always looking to see. from the staff perspective there is definite concern of being able to contain the base. i'm glad to hear they are not going up to 120, which we would hear here, and maybe as far as the castro. >> they said 125. >> exactly. >> which is 5db more than a jet engine taxis down a runway at sfo. >> so there is concern. staff has concern about the containment of the base. >> excuse me. i think they have indicated and acknowledged that if they do create a problem and they are in violation that they run the risk of being shut down for two days and i think they are not
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going to want to lose the ability do it. >> my thought was if they want go back to the drawing board and reconsider how they do this. did you ever think of doing a silent one with the headsets? >> silent, i'm sorry? >> a silent sound. there is a way you can send up to 125db, but do it -- you put headsets on your patrons, i'm not sure how that works. you are going to have a couple thousand patrons? >> there have been several festivals where they do silent waves. >> so i was thinking that maybe what you should do. we have a little time here. maybe you ought to consider going back to the drawing board, because i don't feel comfortable. in the end of the day, this commission approves this permit, it's our fault if everyone is
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disturbed. so my thought is maybe you can go back to the drawing board and think about it and think about how you are going to do that and understand that that tunnel is like a blowgun that will be shooting that out. and that you need to station people in mint plaza and not just at the end of mary alley to see where the sound is really going. and my thought was you go back to the drawing board and come back at our next meeting, which is still before your event. you can do that, if you like. that is a suggestion. >> when would the next meeting be? >> two weeks. >> the 16th? >> yes. >> i think if you can try it, you know, either without any base, see how it goes that way or even half the speakers that you are doing, and also keep it at a threshold below 100. i mean even in a club, over 100 is loud. >> it's a powerful system. we wanted to keep it under 90
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and how successful we would be. >> if it happens to get above 100 and there is only half the amount of subwoofers there, we might not as impact the neighbors as much. >> you will have a couple of thousand people you think? and there is that noise compounded. the noise of humans compounded with your sound in an open space that is a tunnel is problematic. i mean, i think it's problematic. i'm not sure. i think it's a great project. i would love to help you implement it in any way we can and i don't have the answer. it's your project and you have drom come up with the answer. >> so your concern was the biggest concern was the number of subwoofers. >> >> no the biggest concern is the sound being amplified in a concrete tunnel, that will be
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shooting out across the neighborhood. so i'm not worried about your mid highs. i'm worried about your base. >> hi my name is dana castro, the property manager at the chronicle building and i'm here on behalf of the developer ann hurst and our partnership is with gafta and this is an important project for us to be launching. with that said there is another element that we didn't discuss here, which takes place on natoma street and that is a performance stage. that intersection for the arts will be curating. and i believe i included that in the application it will be
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and the concept will consist of dance, theater, performance, song. it wouldn't be truly heavy on the base. i wanted to make sure you were aware of that as well. and then we'll follow with the next steps for the chamber. >> question to staff, is there any way we can split this up and approve the stage on natoma? we can? >> sure. yes. absolutely. i mean, we can rustle up the proper paperwork in the office, but as far as intention, just be clear about what you are approving and what you are continuing or not approving and we'll fix it. >> is it also possible to approve the whole thing with the caveat that when they do the next test, that it only go forward if he is in agreement that it's within the parameters?
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>> the commission has very wide latitude with respect to this permit, no question about it. the reason it's before you is the chamber piece and not the natoma piece. if we do approve the permit with whatever condition it's two days consecutively for a lot of hours. it's easier said in this room than it's done. >> the issue to shut down something when have you 2000 people contained in the tunnel and they have to disperse 2000 people is also an issue. >> well, if the goal is to determine whether it can be
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done to satisfy your concerns, which are very legitimate, and i would say the best way is for him to look at it and let us know if it's doable or not. yes? >> sorry, quick question? >> go ahead. >> would we be able to revise the programming for the chamber and do a test for approval sooner than the 16th? >> well, that is what i was suggesting that we approve it conditionally right now, so that we don't have to come back, if it's not necessary and just try to save everybody's time. and if the goal is to make sure that it conforms to the levels you want to see, we all want to see accomplished, then we're only going to do that with vaj witnessing it and seeing if it's possible. so again, he would make the suggestion we
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approve it now conditionally with his review and approval. then we don't have to come back. >> i have no problem with that. so your stage is 20' wide? is that right? you can't lose every other base and just move them around? >> different configurations. >> okay. >> the tunnel itself, we actually got rid of the platform and the chamber as we currently planned it would be 40' across. so the width of the tunnel and 26' long . >> well, on the ground, no platform? >> it would be carpeted. >> and it would not be sitting on seismic isolators or anything like that? you might want to think about that. okay. >> all right. any other questions from the commission? do we have a motion?
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>> i motion to continue, right? >> i would think what we wanted to do was grant approval on the condition that vaj is present when they test the system and it's only finally approved if he is satisfied that the sound control is adequate. >> we're talking about both stages though? the main stage for sure, but the natoma stage as well? >> no. the natoma stage is not an issue. >> the natoma stage is two mackeys? >> if i could intercede, i think that approval of the artist stage outright and then the approval of the chamber upon conditionally them passing a sound test. >> exactly. >> so i would like to make a
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motion to approve the artist stage and then conditionally approve the cinbon theater -- what is it? latah >> chamber pending further investigation by vaj vernali and if not they would come back and talk to us on the 16th. >> pending passing sound checks. >> i second that. (roll call ) >> good luck. sounds like a very cool project.
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item e, daniels knowle 2nd sunday production cafe cocomo. >> >> we also received one email of concern directly from a neighbor echoing concerns of excessive noise. >> hello commissioners 2nd sunday has been putting on positive events the last 13 years. it starts at cocomo in '89 and moved to mission rock for almost 12 years and was pretty successful there. we also put on a number of events, special events
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throughout the year. but this is our summer series finale. we have run a successful season at cocomo and we're hoping to finish out the season there. uniwe're hope going until 9:00 on october 14th we were approved in august for the sound permit until 8:00 p.m.and we didn't go forward with the event at cocomo and we also agreed that the time that vaj was going to do a decibel reading as a sound check around noon, i believe, or around that time. but again, we didn't go forward
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with that. so we were hoping to do the same for the october date, if we do hold it at cocomo. and we're hoping for your blessing with that. thank you. >> commissioners? >> you said you have had a successful season at cocomo, you have done other events this season at cocomo? >> correct. >> how many? >> two. >> complaints? anybody? vaj? complaints? how many? lots? can i hear? >> i was going to say from my knowledge when we checked in with the entertainment commission we had none on the june date. in july apparently we did and went to fix that for august. >> so would you consider modifying the hours? you want nine hours for the neighbors, would you consider 3-9? 2-8? >> sure.
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we would consider starting a little bit later and going to 9:00. i think as know audrey this event we call it 2nd and sunday and it's based around the sun and dance music and djs and we have got everything set, you know? so it would be unfortunate, but that is why we're here today trying to make it happen. >> any other questions of the club people? >> those other event -- was it outdoors? >> yes, correct. >> and you haven't done outreach? >> i am the is general manager at cafe cocomo, so the outreach pertains to the club, the venue itself. so i address that after comments or now. >> i have a question. how many sound systems outside? just one? >> one. >> but you are still running djs in the club? >> yes.
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it overlaps halfway through and then it moves inside after the 9:00 or whatever time the music ends outside . >> well, let's hear from the lieutenant. welcome. >> lieutenant jack hart and i'm here on behalf of acting captain sullivan. i wanted to say that we did receive several complaints from the july event. and i have documentation not only cocomo, but regarding problems with events that were there. at this point we're denying loudspeaker permit. your investigator had recently done a loudspeaker or decibel level check and what i have learned that it might be a structural problem with the club itself rather than bad behavior of people inside or intentional wanting to be loud
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or other promoters putting on events inside. and that those have not been addressed. as soon as those are addressed and if there is outreach we can assist with that. we have a huge email database through the police station so get the word out and refer them to them or to the commission or to us directly, so we can address these complaints, but we haven't seen that and officer robinson hasn't seen any report back from cocomo itself to us about what specific outreach was done. also, the permit was granted in august maybe for a later time, but as we know it's geting into the fall and it gets darker earlier. so that might be one of the other concerns that we have for this going to 9:00 p.m. >> one quick question, what time would the cads, what time did the reports come in? >> excuse me just one second. >> sure, take your time.